Can Ohio truly get rid of the state income tax? Today in Ohio – cleveland.com
Today in Ohio, the daily news podcast of cleveland.com and The Plain Dealer.
CLEVELAND, Ohio — The state personal income tax would be eliminated over the next 10 years, under new Republican-sponsored legislation.
Nearly a third of Ohio GOP senators are sponsoring a bill to cut Ohio’s non-business income tax by 10% of what it is now every year for the next 10 years. We’re talking about what that would mean on Today in Ohio, cleveland.com’s daily half-hour news podcast.
Listen online here. See the automated transcript at the bottom of the post.
Editor Chris Quinn hosts our daily half-hour news podcast, with editor Leila Atassi, editorial board member Lisa Garvin and content director Laura Johnston.
You’ve been sending Chris lots of thoughts and suggestions on our from-the-newsroom text account, in which he shares what we’re thinking about at cleveland.com. You can sign up for free by sending a text to 216-868-4802.
Here are the questions we’re answering today:
Is it possible that Ohio will become a state without an income tax?
Can I really pay off the Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority to buy my way out of a criminal charge if I get caught not paying my fare?
Is Mike DeWine taking victory in Tuesday’s Republican primary for granted? What has the governor’s campaign been doing of late?
Josh Mandel has been all about the greatness of Donald Trump since he started his run for the U.S. Senate last year, but now one of Mandel’s major backers is harshly attacking the former president. What’s going on here?
Does the state prison system have the power to unilaterally extend prison terms the way legislators think it should? How does a bunch of Ohio Supreme Court rulings change this landscape?
Tuesday’s primary election apparently is not confusing enough, with all the fighting over gerrymandering. How much notice did the Cuyahoga County Board of Election give to more than 60,000 voters that they will vote in a new place this time around?
How long will it take to find a new use for that giant Mayfield Heights Walmart story that is closing?
What’s the number one cause of death for children and teenagers, based on some new research from the University of Michigan? It clearly applies in Cleveland.
A once-promising boxer from Northeast Ohio is getting a new chance to live a fulfilling life. How?
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Read the automated transcript below. Because it’s a computer-generated transcript, it contains many errors and misspellings.
Chris: [00:00:00] No awkward opening today, today in Ohio is a drinking game. Cleveland scene has taken our podcast and put together a bunch of bingo cards with our repetition. And it’s very barbed at each of us. Good, good stuff from. Play long as you listen and you can win at bingo. It is today in Ohio, the news podcast discussion from cleveland.com in the plain dealer.
I’m Chris Quinn here with my colleagues, Lisa Garvin, Layla Tasi, and Lara Johnston, who all were charmed beyond belief. That scene would pick on their little fo paws and habits in this podcast. The Layla with her little take laugh is her transition. Laura skiing in the winter and swimming in this.
Lisa: I loved it.
Leila: You guys wasn’t it. I loved the bingo game, but that scene came up with,
Laura: it was hilarious. The throwing the flag, I was like, yes. Cause. If that’s not a [00:01:00] daily occurrence, it’s at least a weekly occurrence. I think this can go.
Leila: Gabe was like one of the funniest things I’d read, you know, like this matches up with scenes after the November election where they did the, uh, say a valid road, uh, there will soon be more women than Kevin’s on Cleveland city council.
This made me laugh as much as that. I
Chris: loved this tip of the hat.
Leila: I dedicate all the
Lisa: flaps to
Leila: Sam in this, in this
Lisa: episode. Yeah. And I’m, I’m trying to figure out, you know, why my personal details were intimate. I’m just, I’m just
Chris: talking, talking. Yeah. The awkward opening. That’s a direction. Right? Funny. Cause we were
Leila: just talking about the awkward it off the air.
I was sort of like, can we talk about other things other than the weather let’s let’s let’s come up with a list of interesting, uh, openings topics here. Let’s just start, let’s start, you know, digging
Chris: deep. I think it’s obvious. [00:02:00] And about what I’m going to say in the awkward opening until the clock counts down to zero.
Maybe I should just stop talking about what we’ll be discussing and smooth it out. I would think the awkwardness is a little bit endearing. Apparently. Let’s, let’s begin. Is it possible that Ohio will become a state without an income tax? Laura, this is an idea that John Casick was really pushing back when he was governor and it kind of went into a bay.
Once we get these minor little cuts in the income tax every year, Republicans in the legislature can say, they’re our champions. This is a more serious.
Laura: Yeah. And nearly a third of state centers or senators are already on board and sponsoring this legislation, which was introduced on Tuesday. And it would basically over 10 years, eliminate non-business income tax, so that we’d become the eighth state to evolve, to vote, to abolish the personal income tax altogether.
And you’re right. We’ve been cutting income tax since Casick took office in 2011 last [00:03:00] year, the state budget bill cut income taxes by 3% across the board. Don’t remove the state’s top income tax bracket, which, uh, gave some Ohioans, the wealthiest break of about 17%. And so I loved that this bill was introduced by Matt Hoffman’s cousin state, Senator Steven Hoffman, who I did not know exist until the story, but he said the legislation was.
Finish what lawmakers started. And I love this, that they, they argue that you can cut the tax rate and actually raise more money from taxes. Looking back at what happened in like 2011. But I mean, there’s been inflation. It’s been 11 years. Like we should have more income tax and if you zero it out, there’s not going to be any.
Chris: All right, I’m going to be the contrarian in this, or maybe Lisa will join me. I lived in Florida, no income tax state. And what I loved about it is that the legislators did not have bounties of money to squander and, and play games with like they do in Ohio. It kept them running [00:04:00] lean. And you could say, well, it penalizes the poor.
It helps the re. It stopped the legislators from doing wasteful things because they had to provide basic services. I think reigning in the spending can only be done by reigning in the amount of dollars. I’m all for it. I cannot believe the people in Ohio actually voted for an income tax. What was it? In the 1970s who in their right mind would have done that?
Lisa Texas didn’t have an income tax.
Lisa: No, it didn’t, and it’s also a right to work state. But yeah, I, when I moved back to Ohio in 2017 and you know, of course they sent me the read attacks, which I don’t have to pay because I’m retired, but I, I, I paid nearly $900 in Ohio taxes last year. And yeah, in Texas, I didn’t pay that at all.
Of course, Texas is a much larger state with a much larger population, but they seem to do just fine without a state income tax and Florida
Chris: used use fees when they had a network of roads. Half of them were [00:05:00] where you pay as you go. I just, the amount of taxes we pay here boggles my mind. I’ve never felt like, like I’ve been dinged as much as I get dinged here and we see what they do with it.
You know? I mean, it’s not. The income tax that the county council is using Cuyahoga county, but it is still our tax dollars. They’re going to squander on 66 million in slash funds. Well, if they don’t have 66 million to squander, then we don’t squander the money and the people get to keep it. I it’s fascinating if they can pull this off because I do think it makes a difference in where people choose to live.
Well, you haven’t spoken up on this word.
Leila: Oh, sorry. Technical difficulties.
Chris: Yeah.
Laura: Sorry.
Chris: You’re going to answer, I guess. I guess [00:06:00] she relieves having technical difficulties. I thought she was playing the bingo game. All right. Well, good story. Check it out on cleveland.com. You are listening to today. I hope she’s going to answer here. Can I really pay off the greater Cleveland regional transit authority to buy my way out of a criminal charge?
If I get caught not paying my fair Layla, are you there? I am here.
Leila: Okay. Okay. I’m sorted out here. Um, yeah. So this is the strange takeaway from, from news this week about a proposed ordinance in Cleveland that would reduce penalties for RTA riders, who, who failed to pay the $2 and 50 cents bus or train fare.
So the proposed change involves a section of Cleveland code that makes fare evasion on public transit. A fourth degree misdemeanor punishable by up to 30 days in jail. $250. Fine. The new law, if it’s approved by council would remove the possibility of jail time and cap the fine at $25. And the [00:07:00] transit advocates would, would like to see fare evasion treated the same way as parking tickets, which is, would just be, you know, civil fines without criminal penalty penalties at all.
But it turns out that none of this really matters anyway, because. As council’s own proposed legislation points out RTA police, rarely if ever charge people under the city law are T police. Instead use this parallel state law that makes fare evasion a fourth degree misdemeanor punishable by the same penalties as Cleveland’s current loss.
30 days in jail and a $250 fine. And of course only state legislators can change state law, but here’s the weird part that we’ve been discussing among ourselves in the news or in these past couple of days, the legislation that the city is proposing points out that RTA practice is. Those suspected of fare evasion warning on their first offense.
And then for subsequent offenses, they can pay RTA a $25 administrative fee within [00:08:00] 72 hours to avoid a criminal charge. But if they don’t pay in that timeframe, they’re cited under the state law. So that practice means that people can avoid the criminal charge altogether. And, and all the time and costs of fighting it out in court, as long as they pay up to RTA and Councilman Carrie McCormack, who is one of the backers of the city proposal said, he’s cool with that.
And he hopes that that practice continues. Even if Cleveland changes a law, so people can continue to have a chance to keep their records clean. He just wants RTA to start citing folks under the new city law to eliminate the jail time and the hefty fine. If they can immediately pay that administrative fee.
But, you know, RT has kind of ghosted us on our public records requests and our questions, but, you know, uh, you know, what is he is doing here with that administrative feed does not sound like some weird shakedown to you guys. How much money are they scooping up in administrative fees over the years from folks trying to avoid criminal charges.
But
Chris: on the one side [00:09:00] it’s like really benevolent, right? Cause we’ve through our justice reform series, we’ve seen what happens to people. When they get drafted into the criminal justice system for lightweight charges, it’s just a downward spiral. If they fail to appear, there’s a warrant put out for their arrest and they, you know, they lose jobs, they lose custody of their kids.
They go broke. So, so it’s a really bad thing to have people go into the court system for minor nonsense like this. On the other hand, this seems fundamentally wrong. I mean, where does it end? So, so if I get stopped for DUI, Cleveland Heights. Police need to generate revenue for the city that I say, Hey, I’ll drive you home.
Give me a hundred bucks. We’ll put it into the city. Coffers, no charge. I mean, at what point does it end? violent crime. Hey, give us $500. No charge. You’ll be fine. And you’re basically paying RTA not to charge [00:10:00] you. There is no other place in the criminal justice system where you could do that. Know
Leila: another country and yeah, it just, just doesn’t sound right.
It just doesn’t. And I don’t quite understand why, why can, why can’t they, why can’t the city just go ahead and decriminalize fare, evasion. What is, what’s the problem with that? I mean, that’s what, that’s what the transit advocates want. Just go the extra step, just do the thing. What w why what’s the problem.
And then, and then this whole, you know, the, the administrative fee question goes away. We don’t need to worry about, you know, scrub, scrub that from the, the, you know, from the conversation.
Chris: You need some something to induce people to pay their fares, but you can institutionalize what they’re doing. First time you get a warning second time, it’s a $25 fine.
And if you don’t pay it in three days, it goes up to a hundred dollars and just that’s
Leila: and do the parking, you know, make it akin to a parking ticket, the [00:11:00] same that you have that structure in place. Right? I mean, I always feel compelled to pipe pay my parking tickets. I don’t want to, you know, I don’t want to see that, that fine escalate.
But it’s B don’t need to have the criminal charges backing it up. So I don’t know, but this administrative fee, it just feels
Chris: gross. Bribery, man, if you’re bribing your way out of a charge, I think they’re doing it for all the right reasons. That’s that’s the sad thing. They are helping people in a very good way there.
I think their motive, look, they’re not going to be collecting a lot of money with $25 fees. I think they’re doing this for all the right reasons, but the mechanism, it just seems like, did you see
Leila: the numbers at the end of Courtney’s story about how he had, you know, how many thousands of people had been charged for fare evasion?
And those are the ones who, who actually got the citation, not the ones who paid the, the fee. So if we get, if we do get those records of how many people paid [00:12:00] the fee, I’m assuming it’s much more than the thousands who took the charge.
Chris: What a great conversation though, right? I mean, this is just one of those topics you could chew on and really analyze.
Cause it’s just, uh, it’s a good, it’s about
Leila: the role of government we were talking about yesterday and we’re like, well, maybe we’re, you know, we’re, we’re just a couple of years too late on this because of course the, you know, the, the municipal court has said that the way they were, they were enforcing fare evasion was.
Was unconstitutional. And so now the number of people who’ve been charged with fair vision has gone down dramatically in the last couple of years. So we’re not going to see that huge spike of, you know, but, but if you look back a few years, thousands of people were charged with it. So I bet they were making a bunch of money on it.
Chris: And Laura, you want to say anything about.
You’re listening to today in Ohio. That was another bingo reference. Would Sam Allen [00:13:00] is Mike DeWine taking victory in Tuesday’s Republican primary for granted? What has the governor’s campaign been doing of late Lisa? Good story. We put out there yesterday about some heavy spending the has in the world.
Lisa: Yeah, even though he has a comfortable lead, uh, some say by double digits going into this final week before the election, he’s going to shell out $1 million this week and radio TV ads leading up to next Tuesday made third. Um, and like I said, available, polling gives them a double digit lead. And interestingly enough, um, his critics, you know, have.
United against any of his opponents. So they haven’t thrown their weight completely behind Jim RNAC or Joe Blystone or Ron hoods. So, you know, they think that that might make a difference, not much of one probably, but Renee, see a flag Tom way and said that DeWine is feeling the burn, which is why.
Spending, you know, running up to the election. And he says [00:14:00] that Dwayne’s victory is not a foregone conclusion. Apparently the rent AC camp has an internal poll that gives her an AC a seven point lead over DeWine.
Chris: Eh, look, we’ve been talking about this all week. We. The wine wins. We think Dwayne wins handily, but we won’t be surprised if he doesn’t because the whole state is upside down.
There has been a constant attack on him from the far right. That, that basically paint him as a Democrat. And is that working? We just don’t. Nobody has their finger on the pulse of this. I wonder if the wind did some polling and realized, oh, and that’s why he’s flushing some more of his money because he’s going to need campaign cash going into next.
If he wins Tuesday, he’ll have a serious opponent for the rest of the year.
Lisa: Yeah. And he does have $8 million in the bank right now. And, uh, to Renee, she’s only 2 million and then Joe Blystone and Ron hood really are also rans. They, you know, they’re, they’ve raised less than a quarter million dollars to [00:15:00] combined.
So yeah, I don’t know. You know, I noticed that Dwayne’s ads have taken a more strict. Tone lately. So, you know, you know, I think he’s trying to rope in those people who were his critics long ago, and let’s not forget that the Ohio GOP didn’t think they were going to endorse him and then they did. And then they gave him like almost a half, a million dollars in cash and in kind contributions.
So the state party storing their weight behind
Chris: him. Yeah. It’ll all come out in about five days. We’ll have finally have the answers that we’ve been waiting for. It’s today in Ohio. Josh Mandale has been all about the greatness of Donald Trump since he started his run for us Senate last year. But now one of Mandela’s major backers is harshly attacking the former president.
Laura, what’s going on.
Laura: So this group is called the club for growth. It’s a Washington DC anti-tax group. That’s backing Mandel, and they’re publicly attacking Trump over [00:16:00] his endorsement of JD Vance in this very heated, very long running Republican us Senate race, and they already have erred ads highlighting Vance’s past as an anti-Trump commentator in 2016 and way before that.
They backed. Mandela’s a boarded run for the us Senate back in 2018. So they’ve now spent several million dollars on attack ads in Ohio, much of which is going after Vance and this new ad explicitly questions Trump’s judgment for endorsing vans. And it actually splices news clips documenting his endorsement of Mitt.
Romney’s 2018 Senate campaign alongside those same statements advances made in the past attacking.
Chris: It’s such a delicious and to these campaigns, because all of last year, the candidates were just such sycophants, begging for Trump’s approval. And now that he has not given it to them, it’s almost like he’s their arch enemy, which makes you question everything they said and pledging their fealty [00:17:00] to him.
If they hit. True to their word. Last year, the minute Trump said Vance, they would all done what Bernie Moreno did, which is to say, I’m for Vance, but they’re not. They’re coming out swinging. And it’s unclear how much help Trump is giving him. Right?
Laura: I mean, they still want to win. Um, advances said he was wrong about Trump.
He’s saying, and Trump has acknowledged that Vance said him bad, some bad stuff about him, but, uh, he said other Republicans have too and remained in the fold. So you’re right. This. An interesting end to everyone buying for his approval. And then he finally gives it and they’re like, we don’t want it anyway.
Cause he’s he’s wrong. And so it is, it’s like turning on, on your own.
Chris: Well, and after Tuesday, no matter who wins will the rest then get behind that person. After having said these kinds of hard to walk back statements about what monsters they are. This hasn’t been a good natured battle. They’ve been vicious, sad.
Are they going to turn around on Wednesday and say, oh, I fully support the candidates. [00:18:00]
Laura: These ads and they’re, you know, they’re on when I watch wheel of fortune with my kids or whatever, and that’s all that’s on and you’re just watching them going. These could be satires tires, and the kids were asking these questions and you’re like, oh my God, this is just watching the, you know, it swirled down the drain.
It’s so sad.
Chris: I don’t know. Do you really want to expose them to that maybe you should take about for a swim or go skiing listening to today in Ohio, does the state prison system have the power to unilaterally extend the prison terms? The way the legislators say it should. How does this a bunch of Ohio Supreme court rulings from yesterday, change this landscape?
Well, when they pass this law, I did not see how it was not a violation of the separation of powers. It just seemed so wrong that they did it, and it looks like the Supreme court might agree with that sentence.
Leila: Yeah, for sure. At the heart of this is the Reagan tokes act named after Reagan tokes, who was a 21 year old Ohio state university student.
She was raped and murdered in [00:19:00] 2017 by Brian Goldsby. He was on parole for rape conviction at the time. So in late 2018, the Ohio general assembly passed this law that allows the Ohio department of rehabilitation and correction to extend incarceration, time beyond an offender’s minimum prison term. Or early release date, but not beyond the maximum prison term.
And that is, you know, that allows the department without any court approval to lengthen that term for reasons, including the offenders violation of prison rules that lead to physical harm and acts that quote, demonstrate that the offender continues to pose a threat to society. Ohio inmate Edward, Madox challenged that law.
And in March the Supreme court let his case go forward. And then soon after there was just sort of a flood of other Ohio offenders, challenging it to on direct appeal from their convictions and their arguments were what you probably would have expected that the statute violates the separation of powers required in the Ohio constitution.
The rights to trial by jury and due process. And so on Wednesday, the Ohio Supreme court ruled on [00:20:00] 31 of these cases, which is really going to usually hide number in one day. They ended up reversing lower court decisions on 21 cases and sending those back to the lower courts for more review. And as a result, the 21 inmates could potentially not be subject to the sentence increases that the Reagan tokes act allows the Supreme court dismissed the remaining 10 of the 31 cases.
And three of those inmates in those cases were from Northeast Ohio. Laura Hancock has the details of those cases, those three cases in her story that are from our area. But you know, it’s a little unclear what these rulings mean for the Reagan tokes sack, but reversals on 21 cases is quite the message from the state’s high school.
Chris: Well think about the system we have in place where you’re accused of a crime. You go to court, the prosecution. If they win the conviction or you plead out, there’s a huge pre-sentencing report done on you by people who are expert in this, it’s all given to the judge. The prosecutor seeks a sentence. The defense attorney seeks a sentence [00:21:00] and a judge makes a decision in the end.
This is what’s fair. And then. Th th th the prison people can just unilaterally say, nah, we’re extending. That just is wrong in every way. When they pass this lie, I was starting that, then it would, it would make it because it’s, this is not the way it works. And you’re usurping the judge’s power. You can’t do that when you’re a legislator.
Leila: And who is it on in the department of rehabilitation and correction? That’s making those calls. Is it a parole board? Is it some. Who gets that power? That is that it’s, it’s, it’s completely unconstitutional. I’m I can’t even believe that it’s it’s, it’s lasted a few years, uh, without being completely struck down.
It’s
Chris: another result of gerrymander districts. We just have a legislature that doesn’t know what it’s doing and passing ridiculous laws. Hopefully this one will get abolished eventually because it’s just not fair. It’s today in Ohio. Tuesday’s primary election apparently [00:22:00] is not confusing enough with all the fighting over gerrymandering.
How much notice did the Cuyahoga county board of elections give to more than 60,000 voters that they will vote in a new place this time around and Lisa let’s keep playing. Bingo. Did you get that notice yourself or how are you voting in this election? Do you have a personal.
Lisa: Well, you know, I like to vote in person just like I did in Texas.
I voted in person every time and no, my precinct was not effected by these polling location changes, but yeah, they were announced yesterday with less than a week to go before the May 3rd election. But to be fair, you know, I think the Cuyahoga county board of elections director, Anthony per lobby has been under the gun.
He’s had to change ballots. He had, you know, he had deadlines sending them to the printer. So delays like this are probably to be. Changes like this are expected to be expected. Does that make sense anyway, but he says that every ballot is unique across precincts, which is true. So you got to make sure that you’re going to the right polling place.
So [00:23:00] you’re voting on the right ballot. So the, the areas that were affected there were 58 precincts affected. Most of them in Cleveland, eight municipalities were involved 63,000 voters overall. Affected. So those most of them were in the city of Cleveland. There were others in Euclid, Mayfield Heights, north Royalton, Parma, seven Hills shaker Heights, and Westlake all had polling place, location changes.
So make sure that you can either go to Caitlin Durbin story and cleveland.com. We’ve got the entire list of all the polling place changes, or you can go to. 4 4, 3 vote.us website and check their,
Chris: I hope that all of this confusion doesn’t have people just say, eh, I’m not voting. That would be the worst result of this, that the indecision and the willful disregard of the law and the legislation.
All of this other stuff, people just throw up their hands and say, I’m not going to do it. I don’t even know where I voted or I don’t even know what’s on the ballot. We’re getting a lot of that this week. You know, I, I don’t even know which Congress [00:24:00] person I’m supposed to vote for. Can you, can you explain it again?
We’re going to run a Cuyahoga county map to try and make sure people understand that because people just don’t know, but I hope they go.
Lisa: And they can vote today. I mean, you can do early voting in person through Monday next Monday at 29, 25 Euclid, which is the board of elections headquarters downtown.
And you can still vote, vote by mail. You can drop that mail ballot in the box by 7:30 PM on Tuesday, election day. So, you know, yeah. I. Well, we were throwing a loop back in 2020. I mean, the election was shut down, you know, three days before it was supposed to occur. So we’ve been through this, but yeah, I, I hope that people are motivated to vote.
They didn’t maybe not in this primary, but in November it’ll be a
big
Chris: deal. Okay. It’s today. How long will it take to find a new use for that giant Mayfield Heights Walmart store? That is closing Laura. We talked about the, the abrupt closing a week or so [00:25:00] ago, but we now have an idea of how long that thing will just be a big dinosaur.
Laura: Yeah, well, we don’t know for sure, but we, I mean, Sean McDonald did some research on this and he’s hoping, and people in Mayfield Heights are hoping that it’s not going to be too long because it’s in a great location and that lease on the building expires in October. So it’s not like Walmart can just hang onto it as empty space or as warehousing.
The owner is USA management and development. They’ve already listed the building for least on their real estate platform. The website for the company. And according to the, from 42,000 vehicles passed by that store every day. So very, a lot of traffic that can come in to 137,000 square feet built in 2004 for Walmart originally and sits on 10 acres.
So this could be divisible more than one business may end up occupying the space. If you’re coming off the highway, it’s like the first thing that you see on the right. Um, if you’re coming from the south. So I feel like. This will be something that [00:26:00] somebody wants to say.
Chris: Really see, I, I, everything I’ve ever read about the Walmart stores is there is no real use for them because they were so uniquely designed for Walmart.
That don’t hard to carve up that they’re cavernous, that, that, and I think you see across the country that there are a whole bunch of them that have never been filled. There’s one in Cleveland Heights that to this day remains empty. I
Laura: don’t know, but that whole area. The same bustling shopping center that this one in Mayfield Heights is.
And I agree that they are difficult to fill, but Sean went through a long list of places like the super Kmarts and everything that have been sitting or transformed. And I mean, this one, isn’t a better location. It’s not a mega Walmart. Like it’s a regular sized Walmart, which is still giant, but not as big.
And they looked at the toilet. Located across the street and that east gate shopping center, that’s a big building closed in 2018 and June. And by October they had [00:27:00] Aldi in there. So there’s more spots to fill in the area. Uh, three vacant spots in the Plaza, including where a bed bath and beyond used to be.
So. There’s plenty of retail space. There is a glut of it, but I’m hopeful that they’ll find something, although you’re right. I mean, it’s not like you can just like, oh, put another 137,000 square foot store in a blank.
Lisa: Yeah. The mayor himself, the Mayfield Heights mayor said that really the only use for a big box store is another big box.
You know, and you’ve already got a best buy in that area. I mean, all the big box stores you can think of other than Walmart are kind of in that area. Cause it may be a
Chris: Costco. You got the that’s right. You got cost, right? Target. You got home Depot. I defy you to come up with a big box store that they don’t have, and let’s face it.
Retail is extremely challenged, especially post pandemic, where everybody was buying stuff. Maybe
Laura: they’ll put an Amazon fulfillment center in there [00:28:00]
Chris: for jail. Yeah.
Laura: Well, I can just throw the flag on my explanation
Leila: there.
Chris: All right. I think we’ve done enough. Bingo references and I don’t think we have time for another discussion, so thank you, Lisa. Thank you, Layla. Thank you. Thanks to everybody who listens to this. And thank you, Sam Allard for having some fun with this podcast, check out the Sam’s bingo cards on cleave scene.com.
We’ll be back Friday to wrap up the week of news.
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